Grow With Soul Ep: 55. Marketing & Business Q&A With Kayte Ferris
Today is a solo show and back by popular demand it is a Marketing Q&A. We are going to cover tips from how I started out, getting my first clients, transitioning and scaling.
Here's what we talk about in this episode
Do I have any plans to write a book?
What are my worries, and how do I unwrap them?
How I pinned down exactly what my business will be
How long did it take me to secure my first clients and how did they initially discover me
How I tested the market when I first started
Can I start anything business-wise when my style hasn't developed yet, and how do I market that?
How would you approach starting a podcast for your business?
How much of the work am I going to have to do when I start a Podcast?
I am transitioning my business from wedding photography to holistic therapies, I have had to add in agency work to make up for the financial shortfall while I am still building the business, what is your tip for juggling lots of activities and still getting stuff done?
How do I make my paper good business more financially sustainable without turning into a card-making factory?
Links and resources we discuss:
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Read the episode transcript:
Hello and welcome to episode 55 of Grow With Soul. Today is a solo show and, back by popular demand, it’s a Q&A episode with questions from you guys on Instagram Stories. We cover a gamut of topics here, from how I started out, to getting first clients, transitioning an existing business and scaling what you do joyfully. First off though, we start with a couple of more personal ones.
Do you have any plans to write a book?
I wondered whether anyone would ever ask this question! I’m in two minds about it. I wouldn’t say that I’m someone who has always thought they have a book in them, but just the concept of a major long form writing project does feel like something I’d relish (I guess it goes back to university days and writing dissertations). I think that, for someone who works in the space that I do, it is an expected step in the career path, which in a way puts me off it, because I never like to do things when everyone else is!
That said, I do have a few Notes in the app on my phone with chapter lists and blurbs of ideas I’ve had. I’d say it’s not a priority for me in the near future, but something that I’m happy to churn away in my unconscious before it comes to the surface. As I keep having to remind myself, I have, hopefully, decades to go in this business and I really need to stop doing everything in the first three years.
What are your worries and how do you unwrap them?
Oh wow. First of all I really like that you used the word ‘unwrap’ here; I think we often use the terminology of ‘overcome’ which I don’t think is helpful. Having to overcome our fears or worries is then another thing on the to do list we’re failing at, and instead I like to think of it as ways to live with and manage these elements of ourselves.
My biggest and most common worry is not being enough for people, which usually manifests itself in thinking that people hate me. Which sounds a bit over-dramatic, but isn’t that the nature of these worries? I mentioned this last week in the episode with Jo - I worry that every client I’ve ever worked with now resents me, every person who’s taken a course. I worry that once we’ve finished our work together they now think it was a big waste of time and money and hate me for it - even though I know from their feedback and the work they’re doing that’s not the case. Oftentimes if I get a message or a comment from someone I’ve worked with before or who has bought a course, I panic because I think they’re going to be complaining about how awful it is - even though that’s never happened.
As you can hear me doing here, I try to unwrap it by counteracting it with logic, building up a bank of evidence I can call on the prove the worry wrong. At times that I know I’ve done a job on a call with a client I will tell myself ‘you did a good job for her just now’ to reinforce it for later. But mostly, as I said earlier, I’m trying to live alongside it and let it not take over. It’s like how Bruce Banner manages being the Hulk by always being angry - by not trying to push it down or get over it but having it present next to me it’s somehow less disastrous. It doesn’t pop up and surprise me, nor does it take over my whole existence like it has before - its a low hum rather than a full orchestra.
How did you pin down exactly what your business would be?
I still haven’t pinned down exactly what my business will be! Honestly, this year has been very much a transitional one and I’m still not entirely sure what will be coming out at the end of the transition.
I completely get the desire for certainty. Especially if you’re starting out you’re being thrown around in a sea of uncertainty and you just want something firm to hold on to. You see all the people with their professional businesses and you think they must have it absolutely sussed and pinned down and you need to do that to be professional too. But wow, what pressure to think you have to nail down exactly what your business is going to be forever and ever amen.
But really, fluidity is key - for lots of reasons. One is that if you’re just defining your business, you don’t want to spend months and months perfecting a business model and then you get your first client and think ‘oh wow I really hate doing this kind of work in reality’ and then you have to unravel everything again.
Two is that fluidity allows you to move with the market place and tweak what you do to best serve your customers which, as small businesses without boards to report to, is our strength. Third, you are a multi-facted, multi-interest, living breathing soul - your life and circumstances, what you love and what brings you joy, will change over time, and your business needs to be able to change with you.
A compromise here is to instead think about what is my business going to be in this current season? What do I need now and for the foreseeable future?
When I started, I was offering coaching as well as freelance marketing services on the side. Then that changed to just coaching. Then I added on workshops and courses when I wanted some more in-person interaction. Then I eased up on the coaching because I needed a lower volume of clients. It’s only been two years, but there’s been lots of tiny different iterations of what my business is, because what I’ve needed as changed.
The constant, rather than being the what, has been the why. The firm rock in my turbulent sea has always been my purpose and what I’m doing this for - both in terms of myself and life I want, and in terms of the impact I want to have in this world. It’s been the consistent why that means all the iterations around the what have either not been noticed or have made sense, because they all flowed from that why place. So pin down a purpose you can work with, and then think about what you need in this season to work on it.
How long did it take you to secure your first clients and how did they initially discover you?
Thinking back, the timeline at the beginning of my business was as follows: in April I handed in my notice at my job and announced on Instagram (where I had 4000 followers at the time) that I was going to be doing something self-employed. Then in July I left my job and announced my new services. It then took until October to get my first enquiry, and I booked my first client around November. In the interim period I did a little bit of freelance work for my old job and for an agency. So it was several months until someone even enquired, let alone booked!
Interestingly, my first enquiries and clients were from people who had discovered me after I launched my services, not the audience that I had built prior to that. At that time I was also only using four channels to promote my business - Instagram, my blog, my email list and outreach, or going onto other people’s podcasts. My first clients found me through Instagram and through a podcast they’d heard me on, and then read my blog and enquired from there.
The important thing to take from this is having a journey for people with your brand (go back and listen to the episode a few weeks ago about the Customer Journey for more detail on that). It wasn’t enough for them to see my Instagram feed or hear the podcast, the blog was a crucial component in helping them make the final decision, even if it wasn’t how they first found me. So make sure that you’re not fixating so much on being found in the first place that there’s no breadcrumbs of value for people to follow afterwards.
How did you test the market when you first started?
As you can probably tell from the story I just told, I didn’t really test the market in an official capacity - well, I didn’t at all! I suppose you can say I tested it by putting out lots of different offerings and them refining them down until something clicked for people and they got it. In a lot of ways, that’s the only way to truly test the market - put the idea out there and see if people will buy. The trouble with market research and testing is that people will always say ‘oh yeah I’d totally buy that’ but then when they have to get the cash out it’s a different story. Putting up a sales page and opening pre-orders for something is really the truest way to test.
Can I start anything business-wise when my style (art prints etc) hasn’t developed coherently yet? How do you market that?
Yes you can! It is an epidemic amongst creatives that they feel they need to ‘wait until’, before they take the next step with their business. Wait until they’ve done a qualification, wait until their style has developed. But the problem is, the until will never come, because we keep moving the goalposts. You could do nothing but work on your practice for the next 6 months but still it won’t be coherent ‘enough’ in your eyes. Here’s how I look at it - in any given moment, we are at once the best we’ve ever been, and the worst we’ll ever be. Yes, your style isn’t as developed now as it will be in 3 months, 3 years 3 decades, but it’s also the very best, the most sophisticated it has ever been in your whole life. So let’s work with that, instead.
So, with that soapbox moment out the way, the question we’re really asking here is ‘how do I start and market a business when I know the style of my product is going to change?’This takes us back to the question about pinning down what your business is going to be - this fluidity is a good thing. Think of every artist you know and love, every fashion house, every department store. Their style evolves, and still they maintain their business. It is expected that your product will evolve, so it’s not something to worry about.
Your key here, is to build a business around a purpose rather than a product. To make it around what you believe about life, what inspires you, and let the work you sell be just the by-product of that, rather than the centre.
How would you approach starting a podcast for your business?
First of all, I’d back track and start with the question ‘why do you want to start a podcast for your business?’ What is the objective that starting a podcast is going to fulfil? So often with marketing, we start with a thing we want to do because it looks fun or all the cool kids are doing it, but if we don’t give it a specific job we want it to do for us, it can’t possibly be focused and effective.
Once you know the objective, also take a moment to check whether a podcast is actually the best thing to achieve that. Let’s say you’re a coach and want to give people an insight to what it’s like to speak with you on a regular basis, then a podcast pretty much hits that bang on the head. But if your objective is that you want to get your brand in front of bigger and new audiences, then I’d argue that the most efficient way to do that is via outreach, so appearing on other people’s podcasts, instead.
But, assuming that you’re sure the podcast is the way to go, here are the two main things to decide:
1 - Why should someone listen to your podcast? The podcast apps are full of shows following the same formula with the same guests, so your new podcast needs to feel like a breath of fresh air. What can you do that is going to make people want to listen? For me, it was the coaching episodes I do here; what feature or structure can you have that’s uniquely yours? A good tip here is to listen to shows outside your niche - listening to other genres will give you an idea of what’s possible in this medium and give you some ideas to transfer.
2 - how much of the work am I going to do? When I started Grow With Soul, I knew I had neither the time nor the inclination to learn how to edit the audio - that is just not my zone of genius. So I always knew if it happened it would be outsourced - and I work with the outstanding Alex at Sonics, who I hope you agree does a great job week after week on the sound. Of course, there is a cost to outsourcing this work, so you need to work out whether that is a cost you can absorb, or whether you’d rather do it yourself. He’ll probably be cringing as he edits this, but on his site Alex has some really great resources to give you an idea about what it takes to do the technical set up - he will link it in the show notes.
But, once you’ve decided upon your show structure and you know who is going to do the technical elements, the only thing left is to start recording! Tease it to your existing audience, build up word of mouth and encourage people to share it with their friends but get your words out there.
I’m transitioning my business from wedding photography to holistic therapies. I’ve had to add in agency work to make up for the financial shortfall while I’m still building the new business - what’s your tip for juggling lots of activities and still getting stuff done?
This must be such a big change for you, both in terms of the work you’re doing but also the jarring of having to do work for other people when you’ve been used to doing your own thing. I’d say first of all to make sure that your expectations of yourself are realistic - you’re just not going to be able to do the same volume of stuff when you’ve taken on other work, so don’t overload yourself with a full time to do list in part time hours.
I’d also suggest to prioritise hard. 80% of business comes from 20% of activities, so identify your 20% - for me I know that Instagram, this podcast and my email list are my 20%. Each week, prioritise the elements that make up your 20%, the things that really make things happen in your business. I like to always schedule three things a week that are going to move me forward, so that in amongst the admin and firefighting there are always some things that maintain momentum.
I’d also say to be on your own side with it all. We can so quickly get to a place where we’re flogging ourselves to hit arbitrary deadlines or just white knuckling a to do list because we have to do all this stuff. Over the last few weeks I’ve been juggling creating two new products, marketing one of them, my client work, my normal content creation and moving house with all the paperwork and packing and finding roofers that that entails. What made that bearable, and everything happen, was being OK with things being a little fluid. With knowing I’d probably drop a ball or two, but knowing that if something happened next week instead of this that was OK, and having only a small list of achievable priorities each week.
How do I make my paper goods business more financially sustainable without turning into a card making factory?
I think this is a question a lot of people can relate to because it’s essentially ‘how do I grow and scale what I do in a way that’s going to bring me joy?’ What we need to do here is abstract the problem; remove it from it’s context to bring some more creativity to it. When we’re in our business, it’s hard to climb out of the rut of what we’re already doing and see the other possibilities - you’re so used to thinking in terms of cards that they are your starting point, when really you need a different starting point.
So, how to do that. For a moment, forget about the things that you do and have done, and instead look at what it took to do them. What skills you brought to create those things, what the strongest elements of them were - the parts of the whole.
So, there will have been skills of a designer, as an artist, storytelling skills, research skills, the strength of understanding what small things would have an impact on more people, of wanting to teach and enlighten. These are your raw materials that so far you have been making into cards, but what else can they be made into? How else can they be put together to add value? Perhaps its as a book illustrator, perhaps as a branding designer, maybe in curating events, in collaborating on product lines with other stores, creating homewares or other physical products of your own.
Just brainstorm wildly around all the ways your abstract skills can be alchemised into value. And then it’s a case of choosing what feels most exciting.